(00:31) Khasanti: Hello and welcome to the Dark Moon Cafe. We are your hosts. My name is Khasanti.

(00:38) Randee: And I am Randee.

(00:40) Khasanti: And each balsamic moon, we’ll be inviting you in for a monthly conversation about astrology and other related topics. Each episode, we’ll compare notes on how the monthly transits have been showing up for us, followed by a deeper dive into a specific topic, which for tonight’s episode is The Malefic Planets – Mars and Saturn. (voice ominous sounds Duh Duh Duh) (Both laughter) And yeah, we’ve been, we’ve been having kind of a malefic evening so far. It’s literally taken us 50, no, more than that. It’s like, pretty much almost an hour now to just iron out a bunch of technical hiccups. We have foregone our usual pre-show meeting where we normally like talk about, you know, what we’re going to talk about. Um, so this may be, this may be a little weird, but we’re here for it. We’re, leaning into the, the celestial vibes.

(01:50) Randee: A hundred percent. And, it’s, it’s going to be scrappy and we’re just going to go for it.

(01:56) Khasanti: We’re going to go for it. Yeah. So as always, we hope this podcast offers a cozy space, maybe a slightly chaotic space, to settle in and explore with us how we live our lives through the lens of astrology. So, hey, Randee, how are you doing and what are you drinking tonight?

(02:15) Randee: Hey, Khasanti. So good to be back in the cafe with you. And a shout out to all of our devoted listeners so far. Thank you all for listening. So tonight, I am drinking a black coffee. And I’ll tell you why. Because we are talking about the malefics tonight. We are talking about Saturn. We are talking about Mars. And black coffee – some of the key words for me are it’s sobering, it has staying power, it is ready for the drive, it is illustrative of not needing anything else. So that’s Mars. And it’s a nostalgic staple and that’s Saturn.

(03:08) Khasanti: Mmm hmm. And it’s bitter.

(03:09) Randee: So that’s where I’m at tonight. it’s bitter as all f*ck, so.

(Both laughter)

(03:16) Khasanti: All right. Mental note. Adding the E designation to this episode, like two minutes and 55 seconds.

(Both laughter)

(03:28) Randee: So I am ready. I am ready to put our feet into the waters of the darkness tonight as we explore the malefics and I’ll be sipping on some black coffee. How about you?

(03:44) Khasanti: Well, I am going sort of similar, but a little bit less Spartan. I’m sipping on a Mexican hot chocolate with chili, but similar reasons. I wanted to celebrate the, a little ahead of time, but the Mercury/Mars conjunction that’s going to be happening around the time that this episode drops. And also the chili just as a general nod to Mars. And then I’m bringing in Saturn by drinking it from an old family heirloom mug. So there you go, Mars and Saturn. Now please be nice to us. (Both laughter) What other offerings can we make to you? (Both laughter) Oh my goodness. So yeah. So we’re, getting into it. We’re, we’re going to talk about the malefics. Uh, so let’s, um, let’s start out by just, you know, there might be some people listening who are like, what the f*ck is a malefic? Doesn’t sound great. Maybe, maybe I don’t want to listen to this episode. Sounds a little scary. So how would you define the malefics, Randee? Oh, wait. We haven’t done any of our stuff. We were supposed to do all our other stuff. Oh my God. (laughter)

(05:25) Randee: That’s fine.

(05:26) Khasanti: I love how you were just rolling with it. You’re like, okay, I guess we’re just going right into the topic. Yeah.

(05:32) Randee: You know what? That’s Mars in a night chart. I know we’re going to get to that. (Khasanti laughter) All right. So tell me Khasanti, what’s been fizzy for you lately? What are you into these days? And do you have anything you’d like to say about any current transits?

(05:56) Khasanti: All right. Okay. We’re getting this train back on the tracks, people. (Both laughter) Yeah. So I’m going to do a combo pack cause what’s fizzy for me this month correlates, I think, with a transit that’s going on. And so I’ve been getting back into crafting and specifically collaging. And this is something that kind of, sparked for me on that retreat that I talked about maybe last month or in the month before. I got inspired to want to create like a kind of fancy book type thing to live in my meditation area that kind of contains like, you know, favorite poems, readings, Dharma teachings, that kind of thing. And it started out pretty modest and then it just kind of, it’s been, it’s been getting a little wild and I’m into it.

(07:15) Randee: That’s awesome.

(07:16) Khasanti: Yeah. Yeah. I used to like be a big collage-y person back in a former life. And then I kind of let all that go when I moved over here and in 2008. Had a lot of, had to make some decisions about what things were coming with me and what things were not coming with me and, being the Gemini that I am, I kind of enjoy just embracing the digital for all things. And, but now I’m like, I’m having a resurgence of like, just enjoying the tactile nature of, actually doing some some art in the real world. So I’ve been amassing various tools and materials and so forth. And it’s, it’s just going so well. I’m extremely pleased with some of the things that I’ve been making. And I just feel like I’m creating this beautiful sacred object that is extremely personal to me, but also, you know, it’s devotional, it’s aesthetic, it’s meaningful and it’s giving me a creative outlet, which is just great.

(08:37) Randee: Awesome.

(08:38) Khasanti: Yeah. And so I’m linking that to, mean, I know Jupiter has been in Cancer for like months and months and months now. That’s the best thing I can come up with that feels like it matches this kind of new resurgence. So Jupiter rules my fifth house of creativity and Cancer (where Jupiter currently is) is my ninth house of spiritual practice. I feel like that…and then if we needed any more testimony, my natal Jupiter is in the third house so like transiting Jupiter has been kind of opposing my natal Jupiter by whole sign for all of these months, which feels like that could be legit for just kind of lending a bit more spiritual, expansive, faith-based kind of juice to my creative life.

(09:51) Randee: Absolutely. It sounds like the perfect merger of those areas of your life.

(09:58) Khasanti: Totally. It’s very cool and really into it. So, yeah.

(10:05) Randee: That’s awesome.

(10:06) Khasanti: Yeah. So how about you, Randee? What’s been floating your little Astro boat this last month?

(10:15) Randee: Well, I have also kind of been on a little bit of a creative kick, but more so in just what I’m reading. Um, I started reading the Rick Rubin book – The Creative Act, A Way of Being. Rick Rubin is a pretty famous music producer. That’s what he’s most known for. He’s worked with a ton of different bands and he over time has sort of morphed into a spiritual guru slash podcaster slash still producing music, I believe. I believe he has deeply studied meditation and has a lot of mindfulness-based wisdom about the creative process and about not getting attached to the outcome. Actually quite perfect for us tonight, right? Like running into so many obstacles before we hit the record button. And how do we face that? Do we allow for that to open us up to something more creative emerging that maybe was less planned and is more sort of spontaneous? Or do we let that close us down and abandon the project? Right? So those are some of the themes that he talks about. The book is really about the creative process and how to practice that process and be in the flow to the ever flowing river of creative inspiration. So it’s been a really cool book so far. I don’t necessarily have a super concise transit that kind of maps onto that. I’ve had a lot of planetary action crossing over my ascendant ruler, which is Venus. So certainly that could lend itself to just kind of like more in tune-ment with the creative stuff. But yeah, that’s a really cool book. Highly recommend.

(12:41) Khasanti: Oh, yeah, I may have to check that out. Yeah.

(12:45) Randee: Yeah.

(12:46) Khasanti: Yeah. That sounds really cool. I don’t like see myself as a generally a very kind of quote unquote creative person. So, like, I feel like it probably would be quite good for me to read something like that because I’m running into things that I’m sure any, anyone who has done any kind of art probably runs into like resistance, like, I don’t want to start because like, what if I can’t do it or that kind of thing? Sounds like he may have some words of wisdom for me on that front.

(13:22) Randee: A hundred percent. And as somebody who has my Venus ruled by Saturn, I very much can understand where you’re coming from with sometimes this impulse to block something creative before it even begins.

(13:37) Khasanti: Oh yeah.

(13:38) Randee: Um so it’s a lovely kind of meditation on the creative process. yeah.

(13:45) Khasanti: Beautiful. Love that. All right. So now can we start talking about the malefics? (Both laughter) or did I miss some other crucial thing that we do every single time we record?

(13:59) Randee: I think we are there. We are there.

(14:05) Khasanti: I gotta say, I’m kind of enjoying this slightly slappy vibe that we’ve got going on tonight. (Randee laughter) It feels kind of like a relief like we’ve already thrown out the possibility of sounding polished, so let’s just have some fun.

(14:25) Randee: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I mean, if I could be so bold as to segue into the malefics on that note, I do think that there is something inherent in a conversation about the malefics where we are bringing in the concept of balance, right? We are exploring the more challenging, the darker, the perhaps deeper and transformative elements of astrology as we are broaching the topic of the malefics. And, you know, some of the things I think about is that the malefics offer us that balance. You know, I have a really good friend who always says “life on life’s terms” and she has a Capricorn stellium in the first house. So it’s very perfect. But there is something about the more challenging aspects of life that are truly baked into our existence. You know, there’s light and dark, there’s ease and challenge, there’s love and loss, there’s pleasure and pain. We can’t know one without the other. So when I think about malefics, I do kind of go to that place of it’s the cosmic balance.

(16:01) Khasanti: Yeah totally.

(16:03) Randee: Where do you, where do you kind of start when you like, when you think about malefics as a topic, where do you go?

(16:10) Khasanti: Well, I do, I do want to just define the malefics for our good people, who may not know what we’re talking about. So the malefics are two planets out of the traditional seven. We’re generally talking about the seven inner planets when Randee and I are talking because we’re more down that traditional end of astrology. So Mars and Saturn are the two planets that are known as malefic. And literally, I think that means evildoers, which is a little dramatic, I think, but not completely unfounded. And so, yeah, I think one of the places that I start, I guess I’ll also just say that in contrast, the two planets that are known as the benefics are Venus and Jupiter. So we’ll likely be doing an episode on them as well in the not too distant future. But we wanted to do the malefics today because this episode is going to air around the new moon in Capricorn. And Capricorn is the sign that in a way it’s like the most malefic sign you could say, which doesn’t mean that if, Oh no, if you have Capricorn placements, it means you’re an evil doer. But Saturn rules Capricorn and Mars exalts in Capricorn. So Capricorn is the sign where the two malefic planets are the happiest, if you like, or at least the sign that is the most conducive to the most number of malefic planets. So yeah, I like to go in the direction of the malefics being, being kind of less conducive to life and growth, whereas the benefics are more conducive to life and growth. So the malefics are a little bit more to do with endings than beginnings. They’re to do with kind of cutting and severing as opposed to joining and harmonizing. And they are, they’re often just subjectively less pleasant than dealing with the benefic planets. It’s just, that’s just kind of the way, the way it is. Like you said, Randee, life in this human realm is just, it’s a mix of things that are pleasant and things that are painful, things that are hard and things that are easy, and things that are beautiful and things that are more ugly. So yeah, Mars and Saturn both lean in that direction of being more, more denying of life and growth. But lest we feel that they are all bad. I feel like there’s this kind of interesting balance that we have to strike because it’s like we don’t want to kind of light wash the malefics and be like, Oh they’re just misunderstood or like, there’s a beautiful lesson in every malefic transit or whatever. Like, I think it’s important to hold space for that difficulty in life, but also not to feel like it’s just kind of a death sentence. Like, Oh no…I mean, cause we all have Mars and Saturn somewhere in our charts and like every day has Mars and Saturn somewhere in the sky. So it’s, you know, we, we can’t live life without them. And I would posit that we wouldn’t want to live life without them because they do bring that balance. It’s like, if, if everything just continually kept being born and growing and expanding infinitely, then we’d be in a right mess. Like we need, we do need things to end to balance the fact that things begin. We need things to decline to balance the fact that things grow. And sometimes it’s honestly a relief when something comes to an end because, you know, bad unpleasant things can also be subject to the malefics and you can be like, well, now I’m finally out of that terrible relationship that I probably never should have gotten into or that was a good learning experience, but was subjectively not very healthy or fun. The malefics can also help us with any necessary cuttings and severings and dissolvings that might need to happen. And there’s like a bunch of other significations for them that I think we’ll get into. But that was kind of a lot for a first thought, but that’s kind of where my mind went.

(21:52) Randee: I think that was a beautiful summary and introduction. And you should have gone first because that was a, you really laid a beautiful foundation and I just went right into the thesis and that is, that is Mars in a night chart, which I have.

(22:17) Khasanti: Alright.

(22:18) Randee: I think sometimes there is this sort of drive with Mars to get to the point and I like that. I’m not always a great storyteller because I do jump to the point too quickly. (Both laughter) But you said so much there. And I do think it would be great to do a little review of the significations. But something that I wanted to just kind of throw in there that you referenced was you referenced that we are trained in Hellenistic or ancient astrology. And astrology has really changed over the centuries and especially 20th century astrology became much more psychologically-oriented and much more self-oriented. And it kind of maps on to like the emergence of psychology and self-analysis and psychoanalysis. And it was interesting as I was thinking about this episode tonight and doing some preparation for it, that it seems that a lot of modern astrologers perhaps don’t really use “malefic” or “benefic” as sort of freely as a concept or as words as Hellenistic astrologers did. And I think that that does maybe speak to maybe more of an inclination in modern astrology to see things as like a learning opportunity or you know, a growth potential or everything negative is positive…

(24:07) Khasanti: Right.

(24:08) Randee: …that sort of idea. Whereas perhaps in more ancient times, there was a bit more of perhaps even like a deterministic outlook where, you know, good versus bad, life has negative, life has positive, negatives aren’t always transformative into something positive. So I just kind of thought that was an interesting, just sort of element to this conversation that the idea behind malefics is old and hasn’t been translated seamlessly into some modern astrology practices.

(25:00) Khasanti: Yeah, that’s a great distinction to make. Yeah.

(25:06) Randee: But yeah, let’s go back to Saturn and Mars and what some of those significations are and what some key words are for that. You know, the malefics offer us a language and what is that language? What are those words?

(25:25) Khasanti: Yeah. All right. Well, I just jotted some words down and kind of split them into kind of more obviously kind of positive and negative significations. So for Mars, I’ve got injury, war, destruction, and violence as the positive. No, I’m kidding as the negative. (Both laughter) But then energy, initiation, dynamism and desire as more positive. I mean, yeah, some, you could maybe argue that desire is like, you know, could go either way depending on the, on the situation. But, yeah. And then, well, let’s, let’s, let’s hear your Mars’ before we go into our Saturns. Or did I just steal all of yours?

(26:32) Randee: Oh gosh, no, no. And it’s possible I might repeat words that you just said too. When I think of Mars, on the positive side, I think of courage. I think of healthy competition, I think of willpower and I think of sacrifice. And all things can go either way, right? All things have a shadow side, all things have a light side. And when I think about the more negative sort of aspects of Mars, I think about hostility, I think about fighting, I think about conflict, I think about individualism, I think about dominance. Yeah. So that’s kind of where I go with Mars. And you know, I think when we’re looking at a birth chart and coming up with interpretations, those are some of the keywords that sort of float around my head as I’m sort of looking and interpreting and, you know, coming up with that, that poetic story. (27:56) Khasanti: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And one thing I just want to kind of throw out there that you kind of touched on earlier is that when we’re looking at someone’s chart as more traditional astrologers, as opposed to the more modern psychological approach which is really just seeing all of the planets as kind of inner bits and pieces of the psyche, a lot of the time what you’ll see if you’re looking at a chart from a more traditional perspective is you can see, like you might see Saturn in somebody’s chart. And I mean, yes, maybe it can be applied to some kind of inner part of the psyche, but also it might be like their dad or like an elderly friend of the family or a university lecturer or, you know, or like a situation, like, that’s one of the things, this is like a big tangent, but I kind of love that about Hellenistic and other traditional, more traditional astrologies that it does expand the scope of the chart interpretation beyond the inner self.

(29:17) Randee: Mmm hmm. Yeah, I love that too. And I also love the modern take on it as well.

(29:25) Khasanti: Yeah, yeah.

(29:26) Randee: I think as someone who has worked in the field of psychology my whole career, I have a natural orientation towards that. And I have felt that Hellenistic astrology has offered me such a nice counterpoint to that. But yeah, I appreciate you adding that.

(29:52) Khasanti: Yeah. So how about our old favorite guy Saturn then? What are some, what are some significations for Saturn that you, that you would like to share?

(30:09) Randee: Saturn, you know, the keywords that come to my mind, let’s start with the positives. I think about contemplation. I think about maturity. I think about dedication, patience, taking our time. Limits, healthy limits and boundaries, and discipline. Those are some of the positive attributes, I would say.

(30:45) Khasanti: Nice.

(30:46) Randee: Yeah.

(30:47) Khasanti: We have some overlaps there. I also had boundaries and discipline, commitment, I think is just like another word for something that you said. Order, is another one. Like just structure, I guess, structure and order. And mysticism is one that I love for Saturn that I think often gets, left out. You know, Saturn isn’t just kind of a crotchety old man stuck in his dusty library. It’s also like the, the solitary mystic on the mountain, kind of looking up at the sky and asking the big questions about infinity and meaning and all of that kind of thing.

(31:43) Randee: Yes. Love that imagery. Right. There’s something baked into Saturn when we think about sort of the outermost visible planet that it offers us language around having perspective from a distance, right? So there is this sort of built in, I think, wisdom of distance from things and not being so mired in the details or the minutiae, which I always very much appreciate about the archetype of Saturn.

(32:24) Khasanti: Totally. And we maybe mentioned this when we were doing our Sun episode, but in that sense, Saturn is really kind of like the opposite of the Sun, whereas the Sun is like to do with centrality and like the individual, yeah individuality, kind of going it alone, having your own mythic quest, that kind of thing. Saturn is much more, it’s the opposite of being at the center. It’s like being on the boundary, looking in, having that bigger perspective, being less focused on the self, more focused on like the whole community, the whole situation, the whole cosmos. So yeah, Saturn’s pretty cool.

(33:16) Randee: Yes, I love that. And just to take us even further afield, when we think about the Thema Mundi, the birth chart of the world, quote unquote, Saturn is in opposition to the lights. It’s in opposition to the sun and the moon. So that gives us a sense of what it’s all about, right? It stands in the darkness. It stands opposed. It is a limit. It’s a barrier. It’s an end. It’s death, right?

(33:57) Khasanti: Yeah.

(33:59) Randee: And in that Thema Mundi scheme, Mars sits in square to the lights. So here we have this more sort of, um, inceptional sort of challenging breakaway, you know, sheer force of willpower energy. It’s, it’s different and similar, right? It’s different though.

(34:27) Khasanti: Yeah. I love that. Like the difference between a right angle…

(34:33) Randee: Yes!

(34:34) Khasanti: …and a straight line or a kind of an opposition. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. I don’t know whether I had forgotten that or just never thought about that before, but I do like it. Yeah. That’s really cool.

(34:51) Randee: I like it too.

(34:53) Khasanti: And then we need to, we haven’t done Saturn’s negative keywords yet, because we’re both such Saturn groupies that we’re like, let us just tell you of our deep love for this planet. (Randee laughter) But Saturn does, in addition to all of those things that can be really positive, Saturn does also represent deterioration, death, old age, not that old age is inherently negative, but you know, that kind of gradual dissolution of things over time. Loneliness, so like when the mystic or like the, I feel like the loneliness and solitude are kind of two sides of the same coin really. It’s like, are you, are you good with being on your own or are you sad about being on your own and Saturn kind of can speak to both of both of those sides of solitariness? So, did you have any other themes or keywords for the kind of more subjectively challenging aspects of Saturn?

(36:13) Randee: Sure, sure. And, I kind of go back to even where Saturn rejoices, which is the 12th, right? So we have another sort of layer added on to the meaning of Saturn, this planet that rejoices in the place of the unseen, right? So, you know, that’s a meditation. That’s something to unpack personally. But I think about isolation, which maybe that’s like a third side to that same coin that you were just referencing. I think about impermanence. I think about being an outsider. I think about things that are deeply unconscious. So things that drive us in a way that we can’t see. And so it could, it could compel us in a self-destructive way because we can’t see it. We’re not aware of it.

(37:18) Khasanti: Yeah.

(37:19) Randee: So yeah, thinking about the joys offers this added layer to understanding the malefics for me. You know, Mars rejoicing in the sixth house, this house of being of service, of hard work, of labor and toil, the grind of life and Mars loves it there. Okay. Well, that’s a separate meditation, right?

(37:50) Khasanti: Yeah. Yeah, totally. Yeah. And it just puts me in mind of like, another of the kind of obvious differences between Mars and Saturn is that like as planets, Mars moves a lot faster around the zodiac than Saturn does. So they’re both kind of about like more kind of stopping, ending kind of energy, but Mars tends to be just quicker at that. Mars is more like sort of injuries and like sudden illnesses and accidents and things like that. Whereas Saturn is a bit more kind of like the slow deterioration of some kind of, you know, illness or what have you that just kind of goes on for a long time and then maybe eventually ends with death.

(38:59) Randee: Mmm hmm, mmm hmm.

(39:00 Khasanti: So, yeah, I just think those are two, like Mars is just fast. Mars is like, I want to get in a fight (Randee laughter) or I want to get in an argument or I’m just going to like, you know, yell at you from behind my steering wheel or something. And Saturn is more kind of like sort of quieter, slower kind of like disapproving or yeah it’s kind of like, yeah, are you going to be got by like a cranky old man or like a sort of testosterone driven like 21 year old? Pick your poison…

(39:47) Randee: Yes (laughter)

(39:48) Khasanti: …or your birth chart will probably pick it for you. And then we’ve kind of alluded to this as well, but like typically depending on whether you were born during the day or at night, that is traditionally going to say something about which of these two planets are the more difficult one for you. So Saturn is traditionally a little easier on day chart people and more of a challenge for night chart people. In my experience, seems like day chart people can experience like more of the the positive side of boundaries and discipline and that kind of thing. Whereas some night chart people can kind of find that more restrictive in tone. Whereas Mars is supposedly more difficult for day chart people and a little easier for night chart people. So as our resident night chart person, Randee, how does that play out for you?

(40:59) Randee: Yes, yes, I am so going to ask you the same about Saturn, (Both laughter) because I really want to know. You know, without getting too in the weeds of my own Mars placement, I think there are a lot of mitigating factors that make a night chart Mars even more productive and more helpful or less confrontational. But just sort of globally speaking, I have always found for me being a night chart person, having Mars in my fifth house, being really kind of tuned and keyed into motivation and drive around creative pursuits, around self-expression. It does oppose some things in my chart, which you know perhaps bring up some challenges around that expression, but I have always been someone really into athletic outlets, working out, competition for the fun of competition. I love games. I love sports. So perhaps we could generalize that as maybe for a night chart person, Mars may be able to find outlets more readily. And that might be too gross of an overgeneralization, but just something to think about. You know, it’s in the night. There is something about nighttime that makes me think about strategy, that makes me think about being able to move when you can’t see as well. So an inclination towards facing a challenge, working towards a goal, doing so autonomously. I think that those could be ways that Mars expresses in a night chart that are productive and conducive. Of course, where it is in the chart and even areas where it rules could sort of pinpoint a little bit more what you’re referencing. But yeah, I’ve actually always identified, even though I love Saturn, I’ve always identified with Mars in a very healthy way for myself. And it’s never been like a real problem planet for me. But how about you? I really want to hear about how Saturn is (Both laughter) in a day chart.

(44:02) Khasanti: Mmm hmm, mmm hmm. Yeah I mean, I do feel, I mean, I, I’m someone who really enjoys structure. Like I find structure feels safe to me, within reason, like I don’t like being micromanaged or, you know, there’s a certain line beyond which that would cease to be the case. But in general, I prefer structure and boundaries and kind of knowing what things live in which places. And that just kind of feels good to me. It just feels good in my body. Like, Oh thank goodness there are some rules around here that, that we can all just follow and then everything will, it just feels kind of relaxing to me to, to, know how things are supposed to go and then just do that as opposed to like having everything just be chaotic and let’s just kind of, you know, reinvent how things are going to be every moment. So I feel like that is one expression of a day chart Saturn. Oh yeah, I do get pretty testy when like other people don’t have so much respect for the rules and the boundaries. It’s, and again, within reason, like I think there are lots of rules and boundaries that absolutely need to be challenged and I’m all about that. But in general, like I tend to feel more comfortable around people that are more tending to want to kind of follow some, some kind of process than, than the people who are just kind of like mavericking it out all the time. That, that can feel, I mean, it can feel energizing, but like for people that I’m going to be like working on a team with, or like being in close partnership with or what have you, it’s, um, yeah, it feels a little safer to at least have some kind of rules that we can all agree on.

(46:47) Randee: Absolutely.

(46:48) Khasanti: Yeah.

(46:49) Randee: Yeah. And I think about even child development, how necessary structure is…

(46:58) Khasanti: Yeah, yeah.

(46:59) Randee: …for psychic safety. Like nervous system well-being, right?

(47:09) Khasanti: Yeah, a hundred percent. Like and for animals, or at least for pets, I think, like it’s, you know, you can see, you can see how things don’t go great when an animal or a child is just given completely free rein to do whatever, you know, you could imagine that that might be what they want, but actually it, my understanding is that it’s not actually what they want deep down. Like it just doesn’t feel so great. You know, needing to kind of feel like there’s somebody that’s in charge and is going to kind of keep a sort of protective eye on how things are going. Yeah. Yeah.

(48:00) Randee: Yeah.

(48:01) Khasanti: For sure.

(48:03) Randee: I’ve also kind of been curious, I know you study horary, which I know nothing about. How are malefics used in horary? Or I don’t even know if that’s a question. Like, does that make sense?

(48:21) Khasanti: Yeah, it totally does. And it’s interesting. Like one of the things that happens in horary is that if you have a really dignified malefic, then it gets classified as a, what’s the word, not honorary, functional benefic. And then by the same token, if you have like a benefic planet that’s just in really bad shape, either by sign or by house, then in horary that gets treated as a functional malefic. So that’s just really interesting to me. And I’m still kind of learning which aspects of horary can be applied to natal astrology and other branches of astrology and which can’t. Cause I feel like I’ve heard this term functional, benefic, functional malefic before I started studying horary, but that, so that’s interesting to me. And then you didn’t ask this, but in electional astrology, I feel like it’s much more like in natal astrology, I feel like there’s a bit more leeway to be like, okay, you’ve got Mars in Cancer. Maybe you’ll just kind of find creative ways of like living out your Mars in a kind of less obvious way. But if you’re electing a date and a time for somebody to get married or start a business or basically have an inception for anything that they want to go as well as it possibly can, then you just do not want Mars in Cancer in any kind of prominent place in that chart. In fact, you don’t want, if it’s a day chart, you don’t want Mars in a prominent place in the chart, period. Unless it’s maybe like an election for a tattoo or like kind of making a new sword or something that’s like just, as one does. (Both laughter)

(50:38) Randee: Oh I’m so glad. Yes. I was, I was going to ask you about that because I have my sword class.

(50:44) Khasanti: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that’s just interesting to me. And it’s one of the things that’s kind of really challenging about electional astrology is that, you know, you’re, you’re constantly wanting to kind of bring the, the benefics and the well-dignified planets like to the fore, but try and tuck away the malefics, and particularly the out of sect malefic, you always want to put that in like 12th house or the sixth house or somewhere that like can’t see the first house.

(51:20) Randee: The light of day.

(51:21) Khasanti: Yeah. (Both laughter) Exactly. So yeah, it is interesting. It’s interesting how these different branches of astrology, kind of use the same kind of architecture, but they use it in slightly different ways. So, yeah, I look forward to…I feel like I’m kind of learning all of these different branches kind of a little bit in silos from one another. And at some point I’m gonna, I’m gonna need somebody to help me figure out like which, which of these things are kind of translatable and which things aren’t. Yeah.

(52:03) Randee: Yes, you’re going to need an arborist because they’re like branches on a tree.

(52:08) Khasanti: Yeah. (Both laughter) Totally. An astrological arborist. Yeah. If anyone knows one of those, just hook me up.

(52:19) Randee: Yep. Yep.

(52:21) Khasanti: Yeah. So, I feel like we, there’s like a whole huge bunch of stuff we didn’t really talk about that was in our notes, but I also noticed that we’re already at 52 minutes. So was there anything in our little section on personal stories and transits and things that you really wanted to share before we kind of move to a conclusion here.

(52:53) Randee: I’ll kind of like just real quickly kind of bullet point a couple more as like a little bit of a learning lesson for anyone who’s still listening this deep into the episode. And I noticed when I reviewed my list that all of them have to do with house ingresses.

(53:15) Khasanti: What does an ingress mean?

(53:17) Randee: Ahh, yes. When a planet moves from one house to another and we both use whole sign house systems. And so it kind of symbolizes planetary energies shifting from one area of life to another. And so that may be reflected or mirrored back in your life experiences during that period. I noticed that during my Saturn return, my natal Saturn is in the 12th house and when transiting Saturn moved back into my 12th house, I was getting very into meditation and doing a lot of silent meditation retreats. So I thought that was kind of an interesting, like on the nose manifestation.

(54:14) Khasanti: Totally.

(54:16) Randee: More recently, when Saturn, transiting Saturn, moved into my sixth house of work, labor, sacrifice I got a job with hospice, which is where I work now. And I thought that is quite interesting. Saturn and all of the significations we’ve explored moving into the house of work, getting a job working with folks that are in their dying process.

(54:46) Khasanti: Yeah.

(54:49) Randee: And then a Mars transit, recently, months ago, Mars transited through my first house and I kind of had to navigate some physical old injury stuff. And so, you know, we have that Mars energy of injury, maybe illness to some degree, maybe burning pain and the first house – body, self. So just having to kind of navigate some of that. Now it was sextile my natal moon, so there was a little bit of ease perhaps going on there, but, yeah. So those, those are just some, just a couple of personal highlights. How about, how about you, anything on like the personal front you’d like to share?

(55:48) Khasanti: Yeah. Just again, real quick. On the less fun side, there were quite a number of interesting Saturn transits connected with my dad and his final years, like some hospitalizations, his eventual death were kind of connected with Saturn making conjunctions to my natal Sun, my natal Mars, Mars being my ascendant ruler. So just lots of Saturn vibes there. But then, on a more positive front, we got our little kitty Artemis, when Mars was conjunct my Sun and she is, we don’t know like her exact astrology cause she was, you know, a rescue, but we’re pretty sure that she has Mars in Aries just cause that’s kind of a longer transit. So, it…and she, she’s such a little Mars in Aries kitty. And so I just find that kind of cute that Mars was, was like going over my natal Sun when we got her. And I gave notice for a job that was like really, I was really not having a good time doing. It was really stressful and it was affecting my health and wellbeing. Yeah, I just went through some old charts and noticed that on the day that I gave notice for that, Mars was conjunct my moon. So that’s like transiting Mars severing me from something that was affecting my lunar topics of health and wellbeing and comfort. Yeah, I kind of like, I like that example as one of, one of the, one of the positives of like sometimes severing and ending things is, is all to the good.

(57:57) Randee: Absolutely.

(57:58) Khasanti: Yeah.

(57:59) Randee: And I like that those examples also kind of illustrate that transits and, and, you know, planets don’t always represent like an internal psychic process. They could represent an external event.

(58:16) Khasanti: Yep.

(58:17) Randee: So yeah, yeah. And I love how you have framed endings can be a really good thing. Hard, but good.

(58:25) Khasanti: Yeah, totally. All right. I think we did it.

(58:32) Randee: All right. I think we did it. So that is our take on the malefics. And we hope you all enjoyed it. We loved hanging out with you tonight at the Dark Moon Cafe. And Khasanti, let’s remind folks how they can find us and how they can book a session with us. How can folks find you?

(58:54) Khasanti: They can go to my website openskywitch.com and book a session with me there. Or if you’re struggling financially you can also for this year only see me through the Nightlight Astrology Low Cost Clinic, which you can find it under nightlightastrology.com. How about you, Randee? What’s your website?

(59:23) Randee: My website is randeejoyastrology.com and I also have an Instagram page with the same handle, so feel free to reach out to me either way, and I’d love to set up a reading or a consultation. But again, thank you all so much for tuning in. It would mean so much to us if you would subscribe to the pod in your pod catcher of choice and leave us a great review. We are wishing you the very best for the coming month, and we look forward to seeing you again next dark moon.