(00:30) Randee: Hello and welcome back to the Dark Moon Cafe. We are your hosts. My name is Randee.

(00:37) Khasanti: And I’m Khasanti.

(00:39) Randee: And each dark moon, we will be inviting you in for a monthly conversation about astrology and other adjacent topics. Each episode we’ll compare notes on how the monthly transits have been showing up for us, followed by a deeper dive into a specific topic, which for tonight’s episode is self understanding through astrology. We hope this podcast offers a cozy space to settle in and explore with us how we live our lives through the lens of astrology. So, hey Khasanti!

(01:12) Khasanti: Hey, Randee!

(01:15) Randee: I’m so excited to be back and a big thank you to all of our listeners so far. This is a topic that I have been really excited to bring to the table. But before we dive in, I must know how are you doing and what are you drinking tonight?

(01:39) Khasanti: Alright, well I’m drinking a cup of Rooibos tea with a little milk in it and a shortbread cookie on the side.

(01:51) Randee: Oh lovely, lovely.

(01:53) Khasanti: And that is…the reason for that is going to become clear when I talk a little bit about transits of the month and that kind of thing. So I’ll just leave that as an intriguing taster of what is to come. So before we get there, Randee, what are you drinking tonight?

(02:19) Randee: Ah, love a good teaser. So I am drinking a green oolong tea as well. So we’re both on the tea train tonight. I once had this experience at a phenomenal tea shop in Burlington, Vermont, where looking back on it, of course, memory can be fuzzy. I was there for hours drinking this amazing green oolong tea to emerge from the tea shop a changed person, just full of clarity and wisdom and I’m hoping that’s what I can bring tonight.

(02:56) Khasanti: I love it and I have every confidence, oolong or no oolong, in your ability to bring that wisdom to every conversation you have.

(03:09) Randee: Oh, you’re too kind. Oh my gosh. Okay. Um, but wow, we have had a, an interesting month of astrology since our last dark moon cafe. I’m really curious to hear about how the astrology of the month has been affecting you and what’s been, what’s been happening in your life astrologically.

(03:38) Khasanti: All right. So yeah, it’s been, it’s been actually a really good month for me. I’m definitely in a happier, more balanced place than I was last time we recorded, which I am grateful for. I did a really amazing retreat which finished up about a week ago, I think. I did it from my home, which was fantastic. And it felt like a kind of…I guess a kind of homecoming or something. I know that well, it felt like a, wow, I don’t know how to even tell this story without it going on for 15 episodes, but I will try and keep it snappy. So yeah, I first got involved in Buddhist stuff back in 1996 and went on a lot of retreats, did a lot of practice, got myself finally ordained into the tradition that I practice in and post-ordination I’ve been in a little bit of an interesting period where I’ve just wanted to really chill and not do too much heavy practice or too much going on retreat, just let the dust settle kind of thing.

(05:18) Randee: Mmm, hmm.

(05:19) Khasanti: So this was the first, what I would call serious retreat, even though it wasn’t. There was a lot of laughter and fun and irreverence, which is always a sign of a good retreat. It, yeah, it just really felt like I was coming back to all of the goodness of practicing in that context with other people and…yeah, it was almost like a kind of beginner’s mind type thing of like, Oh I’m part of this whole thing and it’s really amazing. And I get to have these really fantastic experiences and feel connected with what I’m doing with my life. And the reason I’m talking about this, this kind of like brings everything all together is that I checked the astrology and would you believe it? I looked at where Saturn was.

(06:27) Randee: Oh, of course.

(06:28) Khasanti: As one does.

(06:29) Randee: As one does.

(06:30) Khasanti: ‘Cause I knew that we were roughly around the Saturn return of my Dharma practice, but I was not prepared to look at the chart and find Saturn at the exact degree that Saturn was when I first walked through the door of the London Buddhist Centre in February of 1996.

(06:58) Randee: That is outstanding.

(07:00) Khasanti: Yeah. Isn’t that incredible?

(07:04) Randee: Wow.

(07:05) Khasanti: Yeah, I kind of feel like that I didn’t necessarily do this on purpose, but I feel like that’s kind of a really great little microcosm of what we’re talking about tonight. Cause it’s like moments like that, that just kind of light me all the way up with how great astrology is. And so I’ll just, I’ll just finish the circle of that with saying that the reason I’m drinking my Rooibos tea is that that was a favorite drink that I used to, there used to be this little cafe called the Cherry Orchard, which was just around the corner from the London Buddhist Centre. It was run by Buddhists from the Buddhist Centre and I used to go there before my classes and it was just a very delightful time in my life where I was doing a lot of journaling and drinking my tea and eating my delicious shortbread and just being all inspired by learning all this stuff about meditation and Buddhism and so that is why I’m drinking a commemorative Saturn return of my Buddhist practice, Rooibos tea tonight.

(08:21) Randee: Wow, that is absolutely incredible. You know, Saturn as the master of retreat.

(08:31) Khasanti: Yeah, I didn’t even think about that. That’s amazing.

(08:36) Randee: And also, you know, I think about Saturn as so symbolic of the spiritual quest, the deeper inner quest that takes time to unfold and to learn. And wow, I am just blown away that that landed so perfectly to the degree. That’s amazing.

(08:58) Khasanti: And it was while Saturn was stationing as well, so its kind of that particular degree was I guess even louder. I guess just for folks who don’t necessarily know what a Saturn return is, that you may have heard that it’s a thing that happens to people when they’re 29, 30, and it’s this big life transition type thing. Saturn takes roughly 29, 30-ish years to go all the way around the zodiac. So when it comes back to the place where it was when you were born, that’s your first Saturn return. Then same thing happens after another, another Saturn cycle. And it really, yeah, it kind of splits, splits your life into these segments of, well, we could probably do another whole episode on Saturn returns, but anyway, it’s, it’s a, it’s a decent chunk of time. And so the chances of a thing, a meaningful thing happening when Saturn is like at that exact degree is, yeah, it’s just the odds are not very odds-y. So, yeah.

(10:15) Randee: Right. Right.

(10:17) Khasanti: So yeah.

(10:19) Randee: And I love that as well because it kind of also illustrates how, you know, we often think of astrology as like our personal journey, our personal sort of karma. And this is sort of illustrating it as also cyclical around events…

(10:37) Khasanti: Yes.

(10:38) Randee: …cyclical around periods of our life. Wow. That is incredible. Incredible. Way to open up our Dark Moon Cafe episode tonight. That’s great.

(10:49) Khasanti: Yeah, I knew you would appreciate it as much as I did. So tell me a little bit about what your month has been like. I hear you’ve been on a little bit of an escapade with Mercury. Is that correct?

(11:07) Randee: (laughter) You are correct, my friend. I now bow down to the power of Mercury and I do a double bow to the power and the depth of a Mercury retrograde period, especially in the sign of Scorpio, which has been really a deep and profound emotional experience for me. You know, when I think about a Mercury retrograde period in general, I go to the place of what lessons around communication need to surface right now, what lessons around our speech. And with this retrograde, I really got into this space of the value of withholding communication. So yes, it’s important to speak. It’s also important to withhold speech and the timing of speech is important too. And so in the sign of Scorpio, which often is about emotional depth, it’s about plumbing the caverns of our emotional self and this retrograde really brought for me a period of emotional confusion. There were a lot of feelings coming up and it was hard for me to articulate them. And there was someone in my life that I really wanted to have a conversation with, but I knew I wasn’t clear enough to have that conversation yet. And as soon as Venus met up with Mercury during this retrograde, it gave me a little spark of clarity and I was like, Oh communicating from the heart, that’s where I can start this. And it turned into a lovely conversation with a loved one about certain things that I value and seeking clarification around our relationship. And this retrograde occurred from my third house into my second house of values and what sustains me. And so it just so lined up with what I was feeling and what I was struggling with. And I just have a much deeper appreciation now for the power of Mercury to reveal something to us of the mind, of our spirit, and to utilize a retrograde period to withhold, review, clarify, and choose our timing wisely when we want to come forth with what we want to say. So that’s really kind of where I’ve been this month. It has not been easy, but it has given me a much deeper understanding of what I value. Hello, Scorpio. And yeah, so thank you, Mercury, for all of your lessons this past month. And I’m happy that you are moving in a direct motion again.

(14:50) Khasanti: Yes (laughter) I will drink to that.

(14:55) Randee: Yes.

(14:56) Khasanti: Oh man, yeah that sounds like quite the journey. So did you feel a kind of relief when Venus showed up then? It seems like there was just a kind of opening that was able to happen that was helpful.

(15:13) Randee: Yes. It was as if the Venus conjoining mercury just pierced through some of that emotional confusion for me. And it gave me a little bit of an avenue for speech that was heart centered and that was clear. And it really offered a grace and an ease to starting a conversation that in my head was much harder to have than it actually was in real life.

(15:48) Khasanti: Yeah.

(15:49) Randee: So, yeah.

(15:52) Khasanti: Yeah, that’s huge. I feel like in those kind of crunchy type conversations, it can be so hard to stay open and stay in your heart because usually there’s some defendedness going on and some fear of how it’s going to go. And one can be a little stuck in one’s head around like, I got to get my talking points out in the right order and all that kind of thing. And honestly, just starting from an open hearted place, I think is so wise, so difficult and so wise, because it’s hard to be reactive when someone brings something to you from a place of love and you can actually feel that they’re doing that. So yeah.

(16:49) Randee: Absolutely. And just as a sort of a closing thought on that, I found myself starting the conversation from that Venusian place of before we dive into the details, I just want you to know I love you and this is all about preserving our connection. And it just felt like, yes, I had landed on the entry point to this conversation. On a personal level, a psychological level, it was great. It was empowering for me. And on an astrological level, that sort of Venus, Mercury conjoining together, joining forces really offered me that opportunity. So it was lovely.

(17:40) Khasanti: Mmm, well done.

(17:42) Randee: But I do feel like this has been a perfect segue into our topic tonight, which is self understanding through astrology. So shall we get into it?

(17:53) Khasanti: Let us get all the way into it. I’m ready.

(18:02) Khasanti: So where do we start?

(18:06) Randee: Oh, this is such a huge topic. Picking a starting point was challenging and I guess where I’ll begin tonight is that there are many avenues towards self understanding. So many. We could imagine spiritual, religious, psychological, nature-based. There’s just so, there’s such a multitude of avenues towards self awareness. And through the lens that we’re bringing to this podcast, we are really exploring the symbolic path towards self understanding. You know, astrology as this beautiful archetypal symbolic language. That’s, that’s the path we are exploring.

(19:09) Khasanti: Yeah.

(19:10) Randee: And so, yeah, that’s, that’s kind of where, where my starting point rests. How about you?

(19:17) Khasanti: Yeah, I love that. And I think it, again, it’s, it’s similar. Um, what, when I thought about where to potentially begin this conversation, I went right to the, the natal chart. Because I, I just love natal astrology as you know. And I love the way that the natal chart is like this beautiful blueprint for a life. And I don’t even fully know what a blueprint is, but I feel like blueprints were mentioned a lot in the kind of, like children’s mystery stories that I used to enjoy as a kid.

(20:12) Randee: Yes.

(21:13) Khasanti: There always seemed to be some blueprints that were either been stolen or something, they seem very important. But the fact that they’re blue is like, yummy. Anyway, that was kind of a diversion. But in a way, kind of not because I almost think of like, it would be nice to do a birth chart kind of all in blue as this just poetic, gorgeous…It’s almost like a poem or something. It’s like somebody writes you a poem about your upcoming life when you’re born. And then they give it to you in the, in the format of this mystical looking circle with all of these different, different little symbols on it. And then if you learn that language, the, the symbolic language that you just spoke about, then you get to spend an entire lifetime exploring that magical map. That’s just so cool to me. I mean, I love a good tarot reading. I love any kind of divination, but there’s something about the birth chart that is, it feels like it’s so deeply mine. And it’s so endlessly fascinating to get to explore it through different chapters of my life. And I guess one of the things that I love about it is that it’s, even though it’s static, it’s also not static because the symbols of astrology are so multivalent, which I think is a Richard Tarnas’ term. And I’ve always loved that term because it’s, feel like I’m like just plucking metaphors from all corners of the universe. But did you ever read that, his dark materials trilogy, The Golden Compass?

(22:23) Randee: No, I haven’t.

(22:24) Khasanti: So there’s this device that features in that book, it’s called an Alethiometer and it’s this kind of like old steampunk machine that has all of these symbols all around it and Lyra, who’s the protagonist in this story, finds that she has the ability to read it but she has to do this thing where she kind of like drops into this almost trance-like space and then fiddles around with the thing and lets the needle land on a certain symbol and then it goes to other symbols I think but then each symbol has all of these different levels that it can work on and that even before I was fully into astrology that machine just really hit me in all of the good places when I first read about it. Just, yeah, something about like the ability to interpret that mystical language and that each symbol is not, the whole point of a symbol, right, is that it can say more than one thing. Otherwise it would just be a word. So the whole beauty of symbolic language is it is poetic. It’s, you know, you have the symbol of the twins. I’ll just randomly pick Gemini as a sign that I’m completely not biased towards in any way.

(24:05) Randee: (laughter) Right, right.

(24:06) Khasanti: So you look at the archetype of the twins and you could probably come up with a good dozen different quote unquote meanings for what the twins could represent. They could represent some kind of duality. They could represent two things being similar but not the same, two things being connected and then being able to go apart and come back to… I’m just totally making this up on the spot. There’s probably a lot more other things that twins could represent, but…you know, like the symbol of the sun, the symbol of the moon, the symbol of the sky or a doorway or something. I mean, it’s just this extremely rich language that can mean so many different things. And I, I love that the same birth chart can tell a similar story, but also a different version of the same story in different circumstances. A certain placement can seem like it just means one thing when you’re 20 and then when you’re 45, you’re like, Oh wow. Okay. I guess there’s like this whole other level to this particular placement that I’m now exploring. And I just love that. Yeah. So

(25:38) Randee: Wow.

(25:39) Khasanti: Yeah, I think it’s a mistake to look at your birth chart. And our teacher, Adam, stresses this a lot. It’s important not to see your birth chart as this very static thing that fixes you as like, I’m a moon in Aquarius person and therefore I am like this. I will always be like this in every circumstance and that’s not in his opinion and in my opinion and I imagine in your opinion, Randee, that’s not the wisest way to engage with astrology.

(26:22) Randee: Absolutely. Um, I believe Adam uses the phrase, the turning of the jewel often…

(26:30) Khasanti: Yes I had forgot about that.

(26:31) Randee: …to, to give a visual. I love that visual representation of the multivalent nature of astrology. The, the, the visual of holding a huge, you know, multi-cut diamond or jewel in your hand and you hold it in just the precise way up to the light and you see colors and you see a pattern. And then if you just ever so gently shift it one degree to the right, it’s still the same jewel. It’s still the same cut, but the colors, the reflections, the essence of it changes somehow. And there’s so much I want to respond to what you just said, but the level of infinite excitement that I feel about astrology, I think is rooted in the multivalent nature of it. That it is an endless playground of possibilities of understanding our complexities. Understanding our inconsistencies. That’s been a huge lesson for me in my astrological studies as a highly Saturnian person. Inconsistencies don’t always land comfortably within myself, but the idea of turning the jewel gives me freedom to be more than just the static birth chart, more than just the narrative I have in my head about who I am. It gives me a richness to self and to self exploration. And it’s just such a beautiful, like you said, poetic language that just offers us such riches at every dig of the shovel. It’s just more riches, more riches. And another thing that I was thinking of as you were talking was you made me think of, I want to say Robert Hand may have had this idea in one of his early books, but the idea of personal evolution as almost like a cylinder. So you’re kind of going, you know, it’s not a straight line. It’s not a left to right. It’s not an up and down, but it’s sort of circular and outward. And so this idea that as we evolve, I do too feel like I’m going on a tangent here, but as we evolve, as we learn more about ourselves through transits, through the turning of the jewel, we evolve dimensionally. We, we evolve to different levels of being, even though we are still retaining an essence of ourselves. We are evolving. And I think that’s also what astrology offers is a lens into our own personal evolution, which can be seasonal, which can be cyclical, like a Saturn return period. You know, that’s a beautiful timeframe, you know, a doorway. Yeah. And, know, just to kind of piggyback off of that and sort of thinking about some talking points for tonight. The other thing to kind of sit adjacent to the personal inconsistencies thing is that astrology has offered me a glimpse into the realm of the light and the shadow and that everything has light and shadow. Everything has brightness and darkness that the self is not static, like you said. And something I was thinking about is that there’s always room for both. So even when we are in the darkest of times, there’s always room for the light. And even when we are in the lightest of times or the best of times, there’s always room for the shadow to come through.

(31:17) Khasanti: Yeah.

(31:18) Randee: Yeah, so that’s sort of another kind of layer through which I think about how astrology has given me self understanding.

(31:29) Khasanti: Yeah, I really love that. And I think that is one of the things that I love about the more traditional astrology-type philosophies is that there is room for, I mean, I’m not here to like diss any particular type of astrology, but I think that the Hellenistic and the other more traditional types of astrology tend to be a little bit more comfortable just going there with like, oh, this transit might kind of suck for you, or, oh, it could be challenging to have this placement in your natal chart. It doesn’t mean that you’re forever cursed to have a horrible life that has no possibility of redemption. You know, there might be, this theme might just be a thing that kind of follows you in some way through your life. And yes, it is still part of that jewel. And so yes, it is still something that you can turn around and see from other angles. But I’ve personally found that a lot of client sessions I’ve had with people, one of the biggest things that is helpful for them is just feeling validated in some of the, some of the struggles that they have in life and not having somebody try and just kind of turn that into some kind of, I don’t know, love and light type, you know, sometimes things are just hard life. Life is a mix, right? And yeah, so I feel like that. And that’s definitely been the case for me as well. Things that I’ve struggled with in quite an ongoing way. When you can see that reflected in your natal chart, there’s something that just feels like you can just kind of exhale a little bit around that thing and accept that you’re not experiencing it because you’re somehow failing at life. And if you just would try a bit harder or be better at meditating or, you know, eat, eat your greens or whatever, then, then you wouldn’t be experiencing those things when you just see it hanging out there in your birth chart it’s like…It just feels like there’s a greater design at work. There’s a mystery to existence that we don’t fully understand, or I don’t pretend to at least, that there may be some meaning, some value underpinning some of these things that feel, that can feel like, I just wish I wish that was different. And that’s not to, that’s not to try and say, oh everything, everything that’s shitty is meaningful and you have to turn everything that’s painful into some kind of beautiful lesson that you then feel grateful for, you know, just feeling like there’s some pattern to it all and it’s not all just random and/or it’s not all just me failing to be as good of a human as I could be has been incredibly healing and relieving and soothing to me.

(35:38) Randee: Mm hmm. Yeah. I could not agree more. In fact, delving into ancient astrological techniques, maybe in contrast to more modern psychological astrological techniques, in the same way has offered me a beautiful insight or acceptance of the parts of myself that are challenging; the aspects of my life that are more difficult. And I have greatly appreciated how ancient astrology does offer to us the reality that life is not always easy, that sometimes there isn’t an easy path to a silver lining.

(36:46) Khasanti: Right.

(36:47) Randee: You know, and we live, I can’t help, I won’t, I won’t go there too far, but I can’t help but think about sort of the capitalist culture that we live in and how that is so emphasized all of the time. Like what are we kind of achieving? What are we working towards? How are we improving? How are we becoming richer? There, there’s something beautiful about the ancient wisdom of astrology that allows me to lean back into the reality that sometimes that’s just not possible. Sometimes there is no richer quote unquote level to get to. It’s about accepting and owning and integrating all of it.

(37:35) Khasanti: Yeah. And capitalism hates that because capitalism wants us to like, continue being miserable and think that it’s because we’re fucking up somehow and that if we could just like buy the next new thing or, you know, invest in whatever, whatever program or product or whatever is going to be the thing that makes everything better. So yeah.

(38:09) Randee: Yes, yes.

(38:10) Khasanti: It’s kind of radical to, not saying ancient astrology is the only way of doing this, but it’s definitely a way of resisting that narrative and just being more like a stoic, right? Being more like, okay, this is the hand I’ve been dealt and my path is to bring as much grace as I possibly can to living out my life with this hand that I’ve been dealt. Doing the best with it that I can within the parameters that I can.

(38:57) Randee: Yes.

(38:58) Khasanti: And I think that’s a little bit of a fine line somewhere, the line between giving up and being a stoic.

(39:10) Randee: You know, that is so true, yes.

(39:14) Khasanti: And, you know, some days are better than others for, you know, we all kind of wiggle around either side of that line a little bit, probably. Some of us probably work too hard at trying to better ourselves and our circumstances and, you know, yeah, some of us maybe on a different day are just like, it’s all too hard. Let’s just stay under the duvet. But yeah, there is, think, some kind of beautiful middle way where you’re embracing the realities of the circumstances that you’re in and trying to lead as good of a life as you can in that spot.

(40:03) Randee: Well said. Very well said. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

(40:09) Khasanti: So I’m curious whether there’s anything you’d be willing to share that’s like a more personal story or an example of some moment or some phase in your astrology journey where astrology helped you to gain more understanding of yourself.

(40:37) Randee: Mmm. Yes, it’s funny. I have a very similar question for you too. So it’s coming. It’s coming your way, friend. I will have to say a real aha moment for me in learning astrology, ancient Hellenistic astrology was learning about the Saturn rulership for Aquarius.

(41:03) Khasanti: Oh, yeah.

(41:04) Randee: As someone with their Sun in Aquarius, I had only ever really knew of it as ruled by Uranus. And that had always kind of guided my understanding of the sign of Aquarius – sort of eccentric, a rebel, a shocking innovator, perhaps technologically advanced. And when I learned that the traditional ruler of Aquarius was Saturn, so much clicked for me because that made sense.

(41:55) Khasanti: Yeah.

(41:46) Randee: Thinking about who I am and then learning about the symbolism of Saturn, all of its meanings, it really connected me to kind of circle back to what we were just talking about. It connected me to the Saturnian part of my chart and myself that maybe has always been a little bit of a struggle or not so easy peasy or an area where there’s just felt like an ongoing search or seeking for something. And once I learned about Saturn and the deeper lessons and the time that it takes, it just all really resonated. And taking that kind of a one step further in looking at my own chart and considering Saturn’s placement in the sign of Virgo, that really allowed me to see where my love for systems comes from, where my love of organized ways of thinking about things comes from. And one thing I was thinking about in reflecting on that placement was that I truly understand something when I know how it fits within a larger system. And that is an insight into my own psychology that I don’t think I ever would have had had I not really studied that Saturn in Virgo thing. You know, what is that all about? Let’s leave out the fact that it’s in my 12th house, but there’s something there symbolically that in learning about really allowed me to access something deeper about who I am, how I operate in the world. Also how I deal with stress, how I deal with pressure. So yeah, that’s kind of a personal story. So, you know, certainly want to leave room for any reflection, but definitely want to throw that question right back to you. I would love to hear a personal story about how astrology has kind of deeply given you a better sense of who you are or a personal aha moment that you’ve had.

(44:37) Khasanti: Mmm. Yeah, I mean, it’s tough to choose one really, but the one that is coming to the fore in this moment is just, it’s less of an aha moment and more of an aha lifetime. Which is, to do with my Mars placement in cancer, which I now learn is also my ascendant ruler. So for the uninitiated, that means that it’s a planet that has a lot to say about who I am as a person. Yeah, Mars and Cancer is not a place that Mars likes to be. Mars is a fighter. Mars has a lot of initiative, wants to act, wants to make things happen, doesn’t really care about being nice about it, just wants to get the results and get the win and be done with it. But Mars in Cancer, which is the moon sign, is having to deal with an awful lot of emotion and need for softness and nurturing and making sure everybody’s okay and it’s like it’s just not, those two archetypes just don’t, they’re not kind of a natural pairing, right? So Mars is traditionally not very comfortable in cancer, but guess what? That’s where Mars was when I was born. And so guess what? That’s part of the magical blueprint of my life and this jewel that I’m turning around in my hands and trying to kind of find some some good pieces to it. I think one of the things that’s been interesting about this has been like, in the first place, when I learned about this, it was more of that validating of things that are difficult for me. Conflict has always been really tough for me. I’m just I’m so the opposite of like a dignified Mars person who’s just kind of able to kind of get in there and have those difficult conversations with people. I would rather run a million miles in the opposite direction than have a conversation with anybody that feels even slightly uncomfortable in any way.

(47:23) Randee: (laughter) I think I’ve heard the analogy once of Mars in Cancer as a pillow fight.

(47:29) Khasanti: (laughter) Yeah.

(47:30) Randee: I don’t know where I heard that from, but…

(47:32) Khasanti: Yeah, that’s perfect. That’s perfect. That even feels a little bit violent for me. Like, I probably might hurt my neck a little bit there. (laughter both) Yeah, so in the, in the first place, it was, it felt very like, Oh that explains a lot of, not that we believe that the birth chart causes us to be a certain way. It’s more like a correlation than a causation type thing.

(48:08) Randee: Mmm hmm.

(48:09) Khasanti: But it’s like, this is at least a kind of a poem that I can tell myself that feels like it fits this thing that has been really difficult for me all my life and makes me feel somehow less inferior to people who don’t struggle so much with that kind of thing. I’m like, well, they’re probably all like Mars in Aries people. So, you know, good for them.

(48:40) Randee (laughter) Absolutely.

(48:41) Khasanti: Yeah. Which is another whole topic of like how astrology helps us with understanding of other people. Maybe that could be another episode because that’s also huge. But yeah, as an illustration of what I was saying earlier about how we, over a lifetime, we turn the jewel and we see we’re not just stuck with the same story. Over time, and particularly since I started learning more about the decans and learned which decan of Cancer my Mars is in, it’s in the second decan of Cancer, which is…has the symbolism of like this walled garden and it’s a progression from the first decan of Cancer which is very much about like the symbiosis of the mother and the baby or the caretaking parent and the baby where everything’s very merged and yeah and then things progress a little bit in Cancer 2, where the baby is growing up and needing more independence, but it still needs this kind of protective wall around it in order for it to have enough safety to fully explore. And I’m so in love with this symbolism for my particular Mars in cancer, because it feels like it speaks to the fact that I’m actually incredibly passionate about things like self care and for myself and for other people – the people that I love, for my clients, for anyone I interact with. I’m like a real champion for like, you got to have boundaries and you can’t be a pushover and you gotta like, you know, it’s okay to be kind to yourself. Like it’s not, it shouldn’t be shameful to have some soft edges that you need to take care of. And so I just feel like that’s kind of a beautiful evolution of like Mars in Cancer from like slightly pathetic person that’s too scared to get in an argument with anyone into actual kind of warrior for softness, warrior for kindness, warrior for vulnerability. And I’m very excited to see where this journey continues to go. Because I’m sure when I’m like 95, I’m going to have a whole other different take on Mars in Cancer.

(51:51) Randee: Yes, yes.

(51:53) Khasanti: And I could, I feel like I could have just stayed with like the first thing, right? I could have just been like, oh well, I’m just stuck with this stupid placement and I’m just going to be this conflict avoidant, you know…I can’t think, I don’t want to be like super mean to myself because that’s, you know, that’s one of the things that is important to me is to be kind to myself, despite all of the things that can be difficult. But yeah, I could have just stuck with that more self-deprecating judgment around that. And, and that wouldn’t have been very healthy or helpful. So yeah, I definitely encourage people to treat their birth chart as a playground of eternal discovery where you’re not just stuck being this one person, but there will be a consistent pattern. You’re not going to just overnight turn into a completely different person, but there are just so many different ways that you can look at the symbolism and the mythology and the poetry of your chart that it’s just an endlessly beautiful way of moving through life, in my opinion.

(53:29) Randee: Gorgeously said. You really kind of, I think are speaking to the power of language. And this language of astrology has offered us so many new words.

(53:49) Khasanti: Yes.

(53:50) Randee: So many new ways of describing things, describing ourselves. You know, the power of words to create narratives about who we are and what we’re capable of. And I think your reframe of Mars in Cancer as this detrimental thing to one of passion for self care – that’s a beautiful reframing. And I imagine learning astrology has given you words and language to create that reframe.

(54:34) Khasanti: Yeah.

(54:35) Randee: And to thence have a different relationship with it for yourself, a different softness to it, a different embracing of it, which is so awesome.

(54:49) Khasanti: It really is. Astrology, we love you. This is our monthly love letter to you.

(55:00) Randee: This certainly is. Yeah, so Khasanti, do you feel like you have any further closing thoughts or do you feel like we have summed it up nicely?

(55:13) Khasanti: I feel pretty summed up. I don’t know about you.

(55:17) Randee: Me too. Me too.

(55:18) Khasanti: Okay. All right. I love it. Okay. So let us call that a night then for the cafe. Hope that you all have enjoyed your time here with us. We have absolutely loved hanging out with you at the Dark Moon Cafe. We’re so grateful to everybody who has already left us really lovely reviews on Apple podcasts or Spotify or Podbean or anywhere. We’ve had emails. It’s really just been quite overwhelming actually.

(55:55) Randee: Thank you.

(55:56) Khasanti: So thank you to everybody who’s actually listening and taking this in and enjoying it and taking the time to tell us about it. If that’s you and you haven’t put pen to paper yet, we would love to hear your stellar reviews of the podcast. And we are wishing you the absolute very best for the coming month. And we are looking forward to seeing you again next Dark Moon.